"He said we had better make an arrangement with the Standard and we would all of us make money, and that they had a very large business and proposed to make money, and the discrimination would be so light against us that we would hardly notice it, and we formed the idea from what he said. We asked him whether the dis crimination against us would be larger if the rate of freight were high than it would if the rate of freight were low. He said, yes, it would be, but he said the discrimination would be very small. We tried to find out by asking what it would be, but did not suc ceed. He then said if we would unite with the Standard we would do better and everything would be peaceable and harmonious, and he would use his efforts to pro mote such a union if we wished it. We told him we did not wish to unite with the Standard; we dealt on freight matters with the Pennsylvania Railroad, not with the Standard Oil Company.
_ _ "There was another interview at which Mr. Bush, Mr. Ohlen, Mr. Cassatt, and myself were the only parties as I remember it; it was held in Pennsylvania, at the office of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, in the last part of May or early part of June; it was at the time of what we called the squeeze in cars. Previous to that time we had had all the cars we wanted without any difficulty; at that time and when we were wanting just about the same kind of cars we had previously been wanting, and business was running on very easily, we found we were unable to get anything like the amounts we had before; instead of getting for the firm I represented from twelve to fifteen cars a day, we were getting only one or two—utterly insufficient for the business. We came over to see Mr. Cassatt about it—Mr. Bush, Mr. Ohlen, and myself. He said he knew there was trouble; that the other side, the Standard Oil Company, had some five hundred cars full here at Philadelphia and Baltimore; that he had not dis covered it until recently, but that he would have it remedied. They had been holding them here full. I asked him why, if he knew of the cars being detained, he kept giving them cars. He said he did not know exactly how that was. I told him if these cars were shipped here and held, it seemed to me they ought to stop giving cars to parties holding them. He said the matter would be remedied soon. We asked him how soon. He could not tell exactly. I said, 'Can't you stop giving them cars ?' He said he would remedy the matter, we should have all the cars we needed; and it was at that time that he made the remark to which Mr. Bush testified, when we had some little general conversation, that if we built a pipe-line he would buy it up for old iron in sixty days. I think I remarked that the Conduit Pipe brought a good price for old iron, in a laughing way. The interview was pleasant enough. Then early in July 1 think it was the last part of June or early part of July—Mr. Ohlen, Mr. Bush, Mr.
Wilson, Mr. King, Mr. Gregory, and myself came to Philadelphia and met Colonel Scott, president of the Pennsylvania Railroad, Mr. Cassatt, and Mr. Brundred at the office of the Pennsylvania road, with the same trouble, the same two troubles as of old, a scarcity of cars and a discrimination in freight. As to scarcity of cars, they claimed that we were getting our allotment. We told them we knew nothing about an allotment, that previous to the first of May we had sufficient cars for our business; since that time we got scarcely any; that if they had not sufficient cars to do the business with we would put on cars. Mr. Scott said they would not allow that, they had bought out one line and did not propose to have another; we then demanded cars for the busi ness, making again the offer to put on cars if they could not furnish them, with the same result. He said they had already fought one fight in our behalf which cost them a million and a half of dollars. We told them not at all in our behalf, we had nothing to do with it; we were simply shippers over the road and did not participate in the matter at all; it was a matter of their own. He seemed to be a little sore about that. When he made the remark which has been given in evidence before, he said there would be no peace or profit in the business until we made some arrangement with the Standara Oil Company; he would be very glad to have such an arrangement made, and would do all in his power to accomplish it. We told him we did not wish any arrangement with the Standard Oil Company; we had been dealing for years with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and we wished to deal with them now on all trans portation and freight matters. I think there was nothing further in that interview.
"He asked why we did not apply to the other roads for transportation. We told him we had. He said, with what results ? That the Central Road had no cars of their own. He said that was a very flimsy pretext. I said that the Erie road cars were controlled by the Standard Oil Company, and the Central cars were controlled by the Standard Oil Company. That in fact the whole transportation of the oil country seemed to be controlled by the Standard Oil Company, and the New York Central, and the Erie, and the Pennsylvania Central, and the Baltimore and Ohio, they controlled the whole thing, and there was no chance, and in addition to that we had been shippers and customers of the Pennsylvania road for years." Naturally enough, men who had been through such experi ences as these of Mr. Lombard were glad to unite with the Tidewater, which promised to free them from the railroads and their chief competition, and they promised to take all their supply from the line.